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NewsMaster
8/22/2010 1:06:34 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Entries based on tutorials

Some entries we see now and then at FN are the exact recreation of the Photoshop tutorials from the net. In such cases authors do recreate the chop themselves but do so following the exact composition and instructions in some tutorial. Such submissions have raised questions lately as to whether they should be allowed, since such chops are nothing more than a recreated copy of someone else's work (the tutorial chop).
We don't question the chops that use tutorials as technique, so to say, what's in question is the chops COMPLETELY (or almost completely) recreating the tutorial chops.


This comment was edited by NewsMaster at 8/22/2010 1:28:55 AM.

POLL: Should chops that COMPLETELY recreate tutorials be allowed at FN?

24% 4 votes4 votes Chops completely recreating tutorials SHOULD be allowed at FN
76% 13 votes13 votes Chops completely recreating tutorials should NOT be allowed at FN

17 people have voted.
Poll has ended on 8/24/2010 1:02:38 AM
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.
HoHouse
Republicans
8/22/2010 2:03:32 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
I DON'T PLAY WITH THEM BOYS, SO I DON'T CARE.I HAVE MY OWN PLAYGROUND AND MY OWN TOYS. NO TOOTS, JUST GAS.
Comments: 4128
Contest Entries: 7091
HoHouse

AZRainman
Independents
8/22/2010 2:20:10 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Hard to tell those images are created from scratch, they just did a little rearranging, or they swiped another person''s version of the same thing. There's even tutorials that come with psd files, which makes it even easier to modify.

I have no idea why some people want to be a human Xerox, when the copy machine does it better.




[Edited by User on 8/22/2010 2:22:31 AM]
Comments: 5946
Contest Entries: 1145
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity." -George Carlin

macwithfries
Independents
8/22/2010 2:48:53 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Agree. It's not just tutorials either....there's a stack of ready made PSD templates around where it's just a matter or dragging ready made source layers (all nicely masked with shadows etc etc) and combining them to make a chop.

I guess from a competition perspective....people should take the time to find their own "un-fiddled with" sources and use their own skills and imagination to combine them into something awesome they can call their own.....'cos that's what a "photoshop contest" is all about.
Comments: 5844
Contest Entries: 230

RealMeert
Independents
8/22/2010 11:37:33 AM


Status: President
It's ok to use a tutorial, but it should be significantly different from the original in the tutorial.
Comments: 2123
Contest Entries: 189
Spelling inspected prior to submission. Any errors occured en route.

geriatric
Independents
8/22/2010 1:00:09 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
Since I don't know what the New Jersey I am doing-I defer to AZRainman who, always, creates with a combination of artistry, originality and poignancy to his works of Art. That is what I find interesting about the Photoshop experience and FN,specifically.
Comments: 12861
Contest Entries: 112
geriatric

DesignerKratos
Republicans
8/22/2010 6:34:11 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
well , i see your point newsy and i don't think it's good to make EXACTLY same the tutorial , but peoples can try it in there own style , in there own idea , there own sources that's how peoples should do from tutorials . about the template psd that's right and peoples should post there own sources to see how much voting for them , and see how much they worked on there designs..
but mate i think about tutorials you can allow it any how coz peoples are learning , and don't think you want to stop there way of learning after that they will come up with good designs if not then they will go to free psd templates and working on them and that's WORST ! hope i am right lol
we voters will know how to give vote at last mate , that's what i think
regards
kratos

[Edited by User on 8/23/2010 1:16:25 AM]
Comments: 5810
Contest Entries: 197

SidKain
Democrats
8/22/2010 11:01:58 PM
Status: Commander in Chief
i think if its same sources and tut, should most likely be removed, if its a valid attempt of a tut that has used their own source i think the voters will give it a mark deserved on skill or humorous ability anyways, i never actually believed in just recreating, but im a big believer in finding tuts for techniques in parts of chops
Comments: 1096
Contest Entries: 305
Will work for Beer and free Tattoos

NewsMaster
Independents
8/23/2010 2:36:39 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
We are not against tutorials, but as Meert said "It's ok to use a tutorial, but it should be significantly different from the original in the tutorial."

We had some submissions where we had to look twice to determine whether it's just a copy-paste of the tutorial chop, OR whether an FN member recreated the copy using the tutorial.


[Edited by User on 9/5/2010 7:51:53 AM]
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

mrmo2
Democrats
8/23/2010 9:08:25 AM
Status: Commander in Chief
Tutorials are great for learning the skills, but when the finished product is and exact replica of the tutorial it shows no creativity or originality. These type of submissions should definitely NOT be allowed. Half of the fun of this site is seeing the creativity that pours out of the twisted minds out there. Sometimes a really original idea, a chop that draws a belly-laugh, or a social commentary that makes me think, in my opinion, outshines a highly skilled unoriginal chop that simply looks pretty. Buy hey, that's JMO.
Comments: 387
Contest Entries: 544

Doxieone
Democrats
9/2/2010 6:27:48 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
I agree with the 'not'.
Comments: 5042
Contest Entries: 331

AZRainman
Independents
9/2/2010 6:11:49 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
New rule here:

No More Entries Recreating Tutorials





[Edited by User on 9/2/2010 6:11:07 PM]
Comments: 5946
Contest Entries: 1145
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity." -George Carlin

DDB
Democrats
9/5/2010 7:46:36 AM


Status: Secretary of Treasury

On 8/23/2010 2:36:39 AM, NewsMaster said:
We not against tutorials, but as Meert said "It's ok to use a tutorial, but it should be significantly different from the original in the tutorial."

We had some submissions where we had to look twice to determine whether it's just a copy-paste of the tutorial chop, OR whether an FN member recreated the copy using the tutorial.

[Edited by User on 8/23/2010 2:37:33 AM]



What if you also make it a requirement to include sources used during the creation of the chop. Mandating sources would help to identify a creation or a plagiarism.
Comments: 816
Contest Entries: 254

Hitspinner
Independents
9/6/2010 7:41:40 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 9/5/2010 7:46:36 AM, DDB said:

On 8/23/2010 2:36:39 AM, NewsMaster said:
We not against tutorials, but as Meert said "It's ok to use a tutorial, but it should be significantly different from the original in the tutorial."

We had some submissions where we had to look twice to determine whether it's just a copy-paste of the tutorial chop, OR whether an FN member recreated the copy using the tutorial.

[Edited by User on 8/23/2010 2:37:33 AM]



What if you also make it a requirement to include sources used during the creation of the chop. Mandating sources would help to identify a creation or a plagiarism.




Requiring sources would suck for me because a lot of the time I simply right click the enlarged image off google and drag it to my work station in ARCSoft. There is no saving step as the image is simply converted to an active PSF file and only saved at the end as part of the whole JPG. It's a little screwy sounding but works pretty well when I'm in a hurry.

As far as the TUT issue. Using anything that isn't altered beyond original recognition is just a bad practice in my opinion. Tut work is fine for practice and unpublished projects but no place for them in a pro arena.
Besides, be judged on what you as an artist has to offer in the form of original ideas and style.
Comments: 17245
Contest Entries: 1280
Hitspinner the Wise

DDB
Democrats
9/6/2010 7:58:34 PM


Status: Secretary of Treasury
I hear ya Hits. I save my pics and then delete'em after the chop or if I'll never use them again
I see quite a few chop's that are made up of others pieces of work, they cut & paste to create and then call it theirs, which I don't think is right.
Comments: 816
Contest Entries: 254

Hitspinner
Independents
9/6/2010 10:07:34 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
Yep, well I'm a long time advocate of originality and boning up on illustration skills so that you can create images from scratch. But I have knocked heads with a few guys because not everone wants or sees the necessity to be that skilled. But if you are not capable of recreating a source to a point of unrecognizability you will be confined to using existing sources and tuts. It's almost an unwinable argument for those guys because the dangerous legal nature of what we do requires some pretty excellent disquising skills, some of which require illustration.
Early on I caught a lot of flack because I was saying if choppers are going to play like artists then you got to be artists and I was amazed at the flack I caught. These "Choppers" or photo Manipulaters as some called themselves were denying what they were hahahaha. My jaw was slack. See, there is not one single thing that seperates photoshopping from any other art. It is subject to the same elemental rules and scrutiny that Leonardo faced, like composition, color, subject, etc., So I said learn the craft of photoshopping but get yourself grooved in on the elements of art, basic how to 101 stuff. Because it all interlaces at points.
I mean, at every level we learn and borrow but at some point after doing it long enough, we should be able to produce chops consistantly that are at least 70% originally modified or better.. I think that is reasonable. It is certainly a safe zone to be in. If you have been watching RW lately, he's been pushing way past the 50% rule and covers his ass quite expertly. Since we're on the subjects of tuts I was thinking it would be nice if somebody created one that showed the optimum extent a new chopper should push the photo to be considered original. See, to my mind, that would be a really useful tut because a lot of noobs wonder where that line is. As I suck at PS and have minimal knowledge, that eliminates me but one of you guns out there might consider that as a public service project.
Well, getting a bit cross eyed, gonna have a lay down. Thanks for the chat.
Cheers
Comments: 17245
Contest Entries: 1280
Hitspinner the Wise

DDB
Democrats
9/7/2010 7:56:52 AM


Status: Secretary of Treasury

On 9/6/2010 10:07:34 PM, Hitspinner said:
Yep, well I'm a long time advocate of originality and boning up on illustration skills so that you can create images from scratch. But I have knocked heads with a few guys because not everone wants or sees the necessity to be that skilled. But if you are not capable of recreating a source to a point of unrecognizability you will be confined to using existing sources and tuts. It's almost an unwinable argument for those guys because the dangerous legal nature of what we do requires some pretty excellent disquising skills, some of which require illustration.
Early on I caught a lot of flack because I was saying if choppers are going to play like artists then you got to be artists and I was amazed at the flack I caught. These "Choppers" or photo Manipulaters as some called themselves were denying what they were hahahaha. My jaw was slack. See, there is not one single thing that seperates photoshopping from any other art. It is subject to the same elemental rules and scrutiny that Leonardo faced, like composition, color, subject, etc., So I said learn the craft of photoshopping but get yourself grooved in on the elements of art, basic how to 101 stuff. Because it all interlaces at points.
I mean, at every level we learn and borrow but at some point after doing it long enough, we should be able to produce chops consistantly that are at least 70% originally modified or better.. I think that is reasonable. It is certainly a safe zone to be in. If you have been watching RW lately, he's been pushing way past the 50% rule and covers his ass quite expertly. Since we're on the subjects of tuts I was thinking it would be nice if somebody created one that showed the optimum extent a new chopper should push the photo to be considered original. See, to my mind, that would be a really useful tut because a lot of noobs wonder where that line is. As I suck at PS and have minimal knowledge, that eliminates me but one of you guns out there might consider that as a public service project.
Well, getting a bit cross eyed, gonna have a lay down. Thanks for the chat.
Cheers





Gotcha Hits. I could use a little help in the use of CS4 to be more effective/creative. I'll try to be clearer...It seems like I limit myself or my chops, yet don't know how to create or push my chops to the point that I see in my mind.
I love to see super clean and creative chops, that make you sit back and think, how in the world did they come up with that idea! I really enjoy seeing Rwpikes creations here lately, there fresh and new. I don't want to seem like I don't like or appreciate any other artists work, but the "WOW" meter always goes off when I see AZ's, RW's, Krato's, and yours as well.
Comments: 816
Contest Entries: 254

Hitspinner
Independents
9/8/2010 11:10:56 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
LOL Well, you do plenty of imaginative stuff. I guess the only limits to creativity is how nuts you want to get and time available. CS4 gives you a lot of bells and whistles to go pretty nuts! But getting that image in your mind onto that computer screen in the same magnificent clarity that you visualize is the quest of every artist. You are in great company. I've never matched the grandure of an imagined image to anything I can physically produce. I've come close, but never that good and don't know anyone else that can either. It's like the speed of light, you can approach it but not surpass it. The imagination is just that grand and illusive.
I figure if I can attain 80%, I'm pretty hot stuff hahahahaha
I know what you mean about watching the other choppers whip up their magic. Its what keeps us coming back, huh? I'm getting severe Funkwood withdrawls. Hope he enters something soon. I just entered a surealistic chop that I hoped would ignite a spark under his butt LOL I Miss Sassydeb too, jeeze, I miss a lot of em. Gonna write some emails.
You know, this site has seen some freaking awsome artists over the years. They wander in and wander out, just like artists do. Fabian creatures we are lol
Comments: 17245
Contest Entries: 1280
Hitspinner the Wise


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